Response to Doc Fai Wong article

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Sifufrank’s response to Doc Fai Wong’s 2002 Article in Inside Kung Fu Magazine:  Founder of Choy Li Fut Training for Life

Doc Fai Wong’s Inside Kung Fu Article:

The link to his article:
http://plumblossom.net/Articles/Inside_Kung-Fu/May2002/index1.html
Jeong Yim was one of the outstanding students of Chan Heung, founder of the choy li fut system. Jeong Yim worked very hard in choy li fut kung-fu training under Chan Heung. He was also a very intelligent young man; this made the system’s founder take notice.

In 1867, after a few years of learning choy li fut, Chan Heung appointed him to take over the Hung Sing Studio in Fut San (modern-day Fo Shan), which was established in 1848 by Chan Din Yao and Chan Din Fune, two of Chan Heung’s first students.

Jeong Yim’s efforts made the Hung Sing Studio famous. During the annual celebration of the Toast Ancestors Temple (Zu Miao), Jeong Yim always brought a strong choy li fut kung-fu demo team to do lion dancing and kung-fu forms exhibitions. Soon the Hung Sing Studio’s name was getting famous in Fut San’s martial arts circles. Because of Jeong Yim’s successful business and his famous name, many kung-fu masters became jealous and challenged him to matches. Jeong Yim defeated all challengers, which only served to make him more famous.

At the time, the people only knew Jeong Yim’s family name of Jeong and the school name of Hung Sing; therefore, those in Fut San thought his name was Jeong Hung Sing. Jeong Yim trained many outstanding students to carry on his teachings. Chan Ngau Sing took over the Hung Sing Studio after ]eong Yim died. Yuen Hai (aka Yuen Fook) went to Toi San to teach and Loi Chaun taught in Canton. Many other students remained in the Fut San area to assist in Chan Ngau Sing’s headquarters and teach in the branches of the Hung Sing Studio in Fut San. Because ]eong Yim died at a young age, he had very few forms to teach. The sup ji kau da and the ping kuen hand forms; hung sing butterfly knives; and the seung gup dan staff are the major sets in the Fut San’s lineage.

In ancient times, students respected their teacher. Thus, it was not appropriate to question your teacher’s background or the history of his kung-fu system. After a time, the students thought their teacher, “]eong Hung Sing”, was the founder of the Hung Sing Studio. In Canton, there was a kung-fu storybook writer whose pen name was Nim Fut San Yen. He wrote a fictional storybook about the Fut San Hung Sing Studio. After that book was published, all the Hung Sing students in Fut San treated the book as though it were the history of their kung-fu system. This book also led them to believe that Jeong Yim and Chan Heung were the co-founders of the choy li fut system.

The fictional story said that Jeong Yim’s uncle took him to the Chan Village to look for Chan Heung. The Chan Village may not have existed, but Chan Heung’s hometown of King Mui Village was real. It is hard to picture a high-level martial artist of Chan Heung’s reputation getting hurt in a fight over the water rights and being saved by a child who knew a little of Jeong Yim’s kung-fu.

The statement that Chan Heung’s village did not allow outsiders to be taught choy li fut is questionable at best. One of Chan Heung’s first 18 disciples was an outsider. Lung Ji Choi didn’t have the family name of “Chan”, but reportedly took lessons from Chan Heung ten-to-15 years before Jeong Yim. The storybook also said that Chan Heung sent Jeong Yim to the Bot Pai Mountain to search for the Green Grass Monk. I tried to find the mountain in the Kwangsi province, but to my knowledge it does not exist.

I also discovered that the Buddhist name of Chan Heung’s teacher, Choy Fook, was Ching Cho (Green Grass). According to the fictional story, the monk in the Bot Pai Mountain gave Jeong Yim the nickname “Hung Sing”. However, this is not plausible. At that time, according to available records, Chan Heung was already using that slogan in King Mui and named his school Hung Sing at the beginning of his teaching. Even today, is hard to have your student learn another martial art and then come back to teach you.

China in the 1800s was very close-minded. How could Jeong Yim bring kung-fu back from Bot Pai Mountain and then teach his sifu, who then became co-founder of the choy li fut kung-fu system? Nor was Jeong Yim the founder of the Hung Sing Studio in Fut San. According to records, in 1848 Chan Heung sent Chan Din Yao and Chan Din Fune to open the Hung Sing Studio. After 19 years, the first two masters retired from teaching in Fut San. In 1867, Chan Heung re-sent Jeong Yim to take over the Hung Sing studio. As you can see, there is little in the way of dates or names to prove the account written by Nim Put San Yen.

My late teacher, great-grandmaster Hu Yuen Chou, was a student of Chan Ngau Sing, who was the successor of Jeong Yim. Chan Ngau Sing knew the true history and was also a friend of Nim Put San Yen, the author of the fictional book. It is only through the martial arts of Chan Ngau Sing, as well as the accounts of the storybook author, that we know the true history of the Hung Sing Studio in Fut San.

Doc-Fai Wong writes a bi-monthly column for Inside Kung Fu.

SIFU FRANK’S RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE ARTICLE:

#1  DFW:  In 1867, after a few years of learning choy li fut, Chan Heung appointed him to take over the Hung Sing Studio in Fut San (modern-day Fo Shan), which was established in 1848 by, two of Chan Heung’s first students.

SF:  This is untrue.  Chan Heung wasn’t the one to send Jeung Hung Sing to the city of Fut San whatsoever.  The Green Grass Monk was the person who instructed him to go there and that was so he could contact the leaders of the Hung Mun branch which was in Fut San.   Additionally, in 1867 Jeung Hung Sing was returning to fut san to “re-open” the school he already established back in 1851. 

Furthermore, the school that Jeung Hung Sing took over from the guy who went blind didn’t happen until 1875, the same year Chan Heung passed away. And if Jeung Hung Sing was taking over to teach Chan Heung’s gung fu he should have kept the original name of the school which was Great Sage 洪圣.  But, Jeung Hung Sing removed that name and replaced it with the new Hung Sing 鴻勝 meaning Glorious Victory. 


#2  DFW:   Jeong Yim’s efforts made the Hung Sing Studio famous. During the annual celebration of the Toast Ancestors Temple (Zu Miao), Jeong Yim always brought a strong choy li fut kung-fu demo team to do lion dancing and kung-fu forms exhibitions. Soon the Hung Sing Studio’s name was getting famous in Fut San’s martial arts circles. 

SF:  Jeung Hung Sing wasn’t famous because of his “GUNG FU and LION DANCE” demonstrations.  He and his school was famous for fighting in the Tai Ping revolution.  For many, he was a local hero who was fighting for the cause of the people.  For others, he was southern China’s greatest fighter. 

#3  DFW:   At the time, the people only knew Jeong Yim’s family name of Jeong and the school name of Hung Sing; therefore, those in Fut San thought his name was Jeong Hung Sing

SF:  WHAT?  if they people didn’t know his name then, how do we know his name now?  That doesn’t make sense at all.  Jeung Hung Sing was famous.  Doc Fai Wong’s comment just isn’t true at all.  The descendants of Jeung Hung Sing including Doc Fai’s teacher Lau Bun told the story that Jeung Yim received the Hung Sing name from the Green Grass Monk.   

#4 DFW:  Many other students remained in the Fut San area to assist in Chan Ngau Sing’s headquarters and teach in the branches of the Hung Sing Studio in Fut San. Because ]eong Yim died at a young age, he had very few forms to teach.

SF:  Jeung Hung Sing didn’t die at a young age as some have mistakenly reported in the past.  For example, some have claimed that Jeung Hung Sing died somewhere around the age of 33 years old.  However, this was a mistake.  IF those who made this claim would have counted backwards from Chan Ngau Sing one would know that it wasn’t until 1883/4 that he started learning with Jeung Hung Sing.  If we follow the idea of Jeung Hung Sing dying at 33 that would have been in the year 1857.  However, Chan Ngau Sing didn’t start his training with Jeung Hung Sing until 1883 and we all know you can’t teach anyone when you’re dead.  Jeung Hung Sing actually died in 1893 at the age of 69 years old, 36 years later than previously thought.  

#5  DFW:  Because ]eong Yim died at a young age, he had very few forms to teach.

SF:  Jeung Hung Sing wasn’t teaching forms that were created by Chan Heung.  His original purpose for teaching gung fu wasn’t to open a school like we know it today.  He opened his school which was devoted to the revolutionary cause of the Chinese people to prepare them for war.  When you’re fighting for your lives, the last thing on earth you’re going to want to practice is forms. They won’t teach you how to fight.  This is the main reason but Hung Sing and Buk Sing Kwoons have a very low number of hand and weapon forms in comparison to the lineages connected to Chan Heung.  Both lineage (HS & BS) believed combat was far more important than being a performer.  This explains the low number of forms. 

#6  DFW:   Yuen Hai (aka Yuen Fook)

SF:  Yuen Fook was a generation lower than Yuen Hai.  The name Yuen Fook has never been mentioned in relation to Yuen Hai by his lineage nor any master than knew of him.  Not sure where that came from, but as far as i know, it’s not true.  Also, when Jeung Hung Sing passed away, Yuen Hai took over the Hong Kong Hung Sing Kwoon while Chan Ngau Sing stayed in Fut  San.  Later on, when Yuen Hai was forced to close down his school he moved into Guangzhou prior to going to Toi San with Lau Bun. 

#7 DFW:  The sup ji kau da and the ping kuen hand forms; hung sing butterfly knives; and the seung gup dan staff are the major sets in the Fut San’s lineage.

SF:  This isn’t true at all.  The major hand forms of the Fut San lineage founded Jeung Hung Sing were Cheung Kuen, Ping Kuen, Kau Da Kuen, Sup Ji Kuen. 

#8  DFW:  After a time, the students thought their teacher, “]eong Hung Sing”, was the founder of the Hung Sing Studio. In Canton, there was a kung-fu storybook writer whose pen name was Nim Fut San Yen. He wrote a fictional storybook about the Fut San Hung Sing Studio. After that book was published, all the Hung Sing students in Fut San treated the book as though it were the history of their kung-fu system. This book also led them to believe that Jeong Yim and Chan Heung were the co-founders of the choy li fut system.

SF:  Jeung Hung Sing was the founder of the 洪勝舘 (Hung Victory School).  What is happening here is a play on words on the hopes of the ignorant Gwai Lo and their lack of knowledge of the Chinese Language.  Sure, Chan Heung’s school name was called 洪圣 pronounced as “Hung Sing” but means “Great Sage” but as you can clearly see, the two sets of charecters are totally different in appearance and meaning.  Therefore, Jeung Hung Sing is indeed and fully credited for being the very first HUNG VICTORY SCHOOL  洪勝舘 in the city of Fut San.  While Chan Heung’s lineage is fully credited for bringing the GREAT SAGE SCHOOL    洪圣舘 to Fut San.  BOTH are the first in respect to their own schools.

#9 DFW:  Nim Fut San Yen. He wrote a fictional storybook about the Fut San Hung Sing Studio. After that book was published, all the Hung Sing students in Fut San treated the book as though it were the history of their kung-fu system. This book also led them to believe that Jeong Yim and Chan Heung were the co-founders of the choy li fut system.

SF:  No one that i know of from our lineage going back to Fut San has ever read this book from Nim Fut San Yen much less spread what he wrote.  I know for myself this book has never played a part in my research. 

#10 DFW: The fictional story said that Jeong Yim’s uncle took him to the Chan Village to look for Chan Heung. The Chan Village may not have existed, but Chan Heung’s hometown of King Mui Village was real.

SF:  The Chan Village did exist back in those days as certain areas were designated by surnames as the Chinese people were very clannish back then.  So this is just another attempt at playing with words to gain the upper hand.  He is trusting that no one has done enough research on their own.  And research shows that various villages were set up via ancestry.  Everyone in the village or even the neighborhood possessed the Chan Surname hence the nick name of Chan Family village in King Mui.  Another play on words?  i think so.

#11  DFW:  It is hard to picture a high-level martial artist of Chan Heung’s reputation getting hurt in a fight over the water rights and being saved by a child who knew a little of Jeong Yim’s kung-fu.

SF:  Jeung Yim’s gung fu?   Isn’t the gung fu he learned Chan Heung’s gung fu? what gung fu was he talking about?  Additionally, if you search on the internet the Hung Sing history in both english and chinese you’ll discover that no one in any Hung Sing lineage mentions a boy and water rights.  

#12    DFW:  China in the 1800s was very close-minded. How could Jeong Yim bring kung-fu back from Bot Pai Mountain and then teach his sifu, who then became co-founder of the choy li fut kung-fu system? Nor was Jeong Yim the founder of the Hung Sing Studio in Fut San. According to records, in 1848 Chan Heung sent Chan Din Yao and Chan Din Fune to open the Hung Sing Studio. After 19 years, the first two masters retired from teaching in Fut San. In 1867, Chan Heung re-sent Jeong Yim to take over the Hung Sing studio. As you can see, there is little in the way of dates or names to prove the account written by Nim Put San Yen.

SF:  It is alleged that Chan Heung supported the Hung Mun and its quite possible he joined our fraternity and Jeung Hung Sing is widely known for his Hung Mun activities.  So if this were true then Jeung Hung Sing and Chan Heung were brothers under the Hung Mun.  According to our lineage Chan Heung regarded Jeung Hung Sing as a brother  by  this time and in 1864 when the two of them reunited in Hong Kong, Chan Heung was curious to see the gung fu he picked up from the Green Grass monk.  Being that Chan Heung was the founder of his choy lee fut system he wanted to improve it by adding in some of the things Jeung Hung Sing learned from the monk.  Because of Jeung Hung Sing’s contributions to the further development of the Choy Lee Fut system it is our belief he could be thought of as a co-founder of sorts. 

#13  DFW:  I also discovered that the Buddhist name of Chan Heung’s teacher, Choy Fook, was Ching Cho (Green Grass). According to the fictional story, the monk in the Bot Pai Mountain gave Jeong Yim the nickname “Hung Sing”. However, this is not plausible. At that time, according to available records, Chan Heung was already using that slogan in King Mui and named his school Hung Sing at the beginning of his teaching. Even today, is hard to have your student learn another martial art and then come back to teach you.

SF:  This really shocked the ENTIRE Choy Lee Fut world when he made the claim of Choy Fook’s “BUDDHIST” name.  For myself, this was a shocker because the name “GREEN GRASS or CHING CHO” isn’t a “Buddhist” name at all.  It has no correlation to Shaolin nor does it have any connection to religion.  In my personal opinion he was hoping that no one really knew anything about monk ching cho at all.  but much to his chagrin he tried to paint a new history for this infamously mysterious monk.  But the book i’ve been working on will shed some major light onto this whole subject and will nullify this false claim that Choy Fook’s “BUDDHIST” name was Ching Cho.  Nothing is more fictional than his claim.

#14  DFW:  As you can see, there is little in the way of dates or names to prove the account written by Nim Fut San Yen.

SF:  He’s going to have a tough time proving that we use the information in Nim’s book as NO ONE has ever read it in todays day and age.

CONCLUDING, this isn’t an attack on Wong Doc Fai.  It’s purely an attempt to share the history of our branch as we know it and set the record straight.  Again…..this is NOT a personal attack on him.  The article he wrote is filled with inaccuracies in regards to the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon and the legacy it left behind. Since his article was in print, my response to his article in print is only fair.

The Five Sings of Choy Lee Fut

 

 ”洪英至聖 – 英雄永勝”

 (Hung Hero’s are the Greatest- Heroe’s always win)

 By Sifu Frank McCarthy 五洲洪門致公總堂

 洪聖館: (Great Sage School-pronounced as Hung Sing or Hung Xiong)-Founded by Chan Heung in Ging Mui in 1836. Here, he taught Choy Lee Fut strictly passed down through the bloodline of the Chan Clan. “洪聖” is in reference to Hung Wu, the namesake of the Hung Society. Chan Heung is said to have been active with the Hung Mun, and possibly was a Hung Gwun or Red Pole, a commander of a fighting brigade.

洪勝館: (Hung Victory School – pronounced as Hung Sing). This was the original name given to Jeung Ah Yim (張炎) by Ching Cho Wo Seung. (青草和尙) in 1849, as well as the name he used to open his very first school, which, was dedicated only to the Hung Mun. The name was a secret reference to the desires of the Hung Mun winning the victory in overthrowing the Qing Empire to restore the ming back to power. Additionally, the name has a verified connection to the Hung Mun and will be expounded upon in a book written by Frank McCarthy.

雄勝館: (Strong or Heroic Victory – pronounced as Hung Sing) This branch was founded by Chan Koon Pak, the second son of Chan Heung. Originally, Chan Koon Pak used “鴻勝” which was different to that of his fathers (洪聖), and is believed to have learned from Jeung Hung Sing (張洪勝). But, because the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon (佛山鴻勝館) was constantly in the news in regards to various uprisings they were involved with, Koon Pak decided to change his schools name to 雄勝館.

鴻 勝館: (Glorious Victory- pronounced as Hung Sing: literal translation: Great Wild Goose Victory). Sometime between the mid 1860′s and 1875 Jeung Hung Sing (張洪勝) and his Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon (佛山洪勝館) was the target of the Qing Dynasty government, who, continuously ordered it to be closed down because of their connection as a Hung Mun based school of martial arts. He needed to change the name of his school to take the attention off of him, without losing his school essence. So, Jeung Hung Sing chose to used the new name of 鴻勝. However, to the uninitiated, the Hung Mun connection isn’t so obvious. In his up and coming book, Frank McCarthy explains the connection in depth.

 北勝館: (Northing Victory – pronounced as Buk Sing) – This branch was founded by Tam Sam 譚三, who, was a student of Lui Chun, one of three more senior students of Jeung Hung Sing himself. However, in the early days of Tam Sam’s teaching, his school went by the name of Hung Sing (洪勝譚館) Tam Kwoon. But, because his school had to move north, the name later changed to the Buk Sing Kwoon between the 1930′s and 1940′s. This lineage evolved into their own entity known as Buk Sing Choy Lee Fut.

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From Victory to the Hung 洪勝 to Glorious Victory 鸿勝

 

 

Hung Sing

From Victory to the Hung 洪勝 to Glorious Victory 鸿勝

 

By Frankie McCarthy

It’s a well known fact that the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon (佛山鴻勝蔡李佛)as founded by Jeung Hung Sing was one of the most famous  martial art schools to emerge from southern China during the last 60+ years of the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911). Today (160 years later), the Hung Sing  鴻勝 name continues to hold a high level of prestige amongst the older generations of southern Chinese martial teachers and students. Even the government of Fut San recognized Jeung Hung Sing’s major contributions not only to gung fu, but, for protecting their country against foreign invaders as well. Now, you can find a Hung Sing “鴻勝”school on virtually every continent of the world. But, not many people remember or even know the true root to the Hung Sing name itself. 

In every Chinese martial art community around the world its safe to say the Hung Sing “鴻勝” Chinese characters as we know it today are highly recognizable. However, reaching back to 1851 this Hung Sing “鴻勝” wasn’t the original name being used in those days.  It came later and  was used as the replacement characters and installed somewhere between 1867 when Jeung Hung Sing returned to re-open his school in Fut San, or, in 1875 when Chan Heung passed away. Either way, not too many students of today’s generation are aware of the origin of this name and naturally assumed it was the one given to Jeung Yim by the monk Ching Cho (Green Grass Monk). 

The answer to the question of “where did Jeung Yim’s Hung Sing name come from?”, was discovered in one of the books published in 1866 by a certain European Free Mason, who, was interested in the Chinese secret society.  In this case, the author personally documented what he found on the flags of the society by hand.  The truth about its origins came in the form of a slogan consisting of only 4 Chinese words found on one of those flags. The only trick is, it takes someone with inside knowledge of the society to know what to look for and how to decipher it. Hiding things in plain sight to conceal its true meaning from prying eyes was a common practice amongst the Chinese secret societies.

From the moment the Qing government destroyed the Shaolin Temple (Circa 1760),  killing the monks within it, overthrowing the Qing has been one of the Hung Mun’s primary goals since its existence.  This is where the secretive slogan of four words come into play. The  meaning behind it was “the Hung Mun will be victorious in overthrowing the Qing government.”  You can arguably claim that the slogan was more in line with a prediction of victory more than anything else.  Still, because of the government mandate that anyone presumed to be a member of the Hung Mun were to be decapitated on the spot, they were forced to hide this prediction within an obscured slogan.

The original Hung Sing (洪勝) name given to Jeung Yim by the Green Grass Monk meant Hung Victory and can also be translated as Victory to the Hung, as in Hung Mun.   It was  derived from the Hung Mun slogan and used as synonym for it.  In addition to this, the Hung Sing (洪勝)  name  shares the exact same  greater meaning of “the Hung Mun will be victorious in overthrowing the Qing government” with the four worded slogan.  Furthermore, this name wasn’t something created by Jeung Yim as it was already in use elsewhere, nor, was it exclusively used by him.  For instance, a  洪勝堂 (Hung Sing Tong) already existed in the mountains of Guangxi where 60 out of 100 secret society tongs contained the word Sing ”勝”or Victory in their names.

 In 1867 Jeung Hung Sing returned to Fut San to re-open his school that was closed down by the Qing government.  Somewhere between 1867-1875 Jeung Yim needed to change the name of his school in order to avoid futher trouble with the law.  According to certain Chan Family Choy Lee Fut members he asked Chan Heung for help in choosing a new name, but, since there are no records of this its difficult to verify.  Regardless, he changed his schools name to 鴻勝 (Hung Sing) while keeping the “Hung”pronunciation by replacing the original “洪” (Hung) character with. 

 Jeung Yim’s decision to use this character was well thought out for a few of reasons.  First, the new “鴻” (Hung – lit. Trans. – Great Wild Goose) character didn’t have a visual connection to the outlawed secret society to a spectator.  However, there is more to the new character than meets the eye.  Secondly, on the left side of both characters “洪 & 鴻” the three water drops (氵) are found. This was a hidden symbol used by the secret society.  Thirdly, another secret symbol used by the tong founded by the Green Grass Monk was for the word Sau meaning “Longevity.”  The new “鴻” (Hung – lit. Trans. – Great Wild Goose) character also has a connection to the word “Longevity” since this is what the Wild Goose represents within the Chinese Culture.

Masters like Lui Chun, Yuen Hai, and Lee Yan were Jeung Yim’s students when the school was using the original 洪勝 (Hung Sing-Hung Victory ) name, while in 1884 Chan Ngau Sing began training with Jeung Yim when the school was already using the new 鴻勝 (Hung Sing – Great Wild Goose) characters.  From that point to the present, the old name had long been forgotten and the new one gained fame throughout the world.    Today, you can find a 鴻勝 school on virtually every continent on the planet.  And, since 2001 the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon  (佛山鴻勝蔡李佛), the birthplace of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut, has re-emerged into the martial world the legacy of Jeung Yim is once again regaining its popularity.  I know if Jeung Yim was watching over us he’d be extremely proud to see his fighting method flourishing like it is, Long Live Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut.

The truth about the age difference between Jeung Hung Sing and Chan Hung.

by Sifu Frank McCarthy

All across the board it is unanimously agreed upon that Jeung Hung Sing was only 12 years old when he first came to train under Chan Heung.  His age is very significant in properly placing him within the family tree of the Choy Lee Fut system.  For years, there was some controversy over his actual birth date because no one really knew what age he passed away either.  However, many new revelations about the founder of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut came with the re-emergence of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon in 2001.  For example, we now know he was married, a father, and he had a duel with Wing Chun’s Master Leung Jan.

With all of the new information coming out of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon, we came to learn that Jeung Hung Sing died at the age of 69 years old in the year 1893. To figure out his birth year the logical thing to do at that time was subtract 69 years from 1893  which turned out to be the year 1824.  The unanimously agreed upon age of Jeung Hung Sing was 12 years old and that would have placed him in the year 1836, the exact same year Chan Heung established his Choy Lee Fut system.  In 1836 Chan Heung was only 30 years old, making him 18 years older than Jeung Hung Sing.  Yet, after reading the accounts of some Choy Lee Fut schools it will leave you scratching your head. 

In some accounts originating from Chan Heung’s lineages they would have you believe that he was much older than Jeung Hung Sing.  In fact, I’ve witnessed certain individuals interested in the history as well try to keep as much distance between them as possible in order to seem more credible. One of the ways they try to do this is by labeling Jeung Hung Sing as one of the last batch of Chan Heung’s students in the year 1867.  By doing this they are attempting to invalidate everything Jeung Hung Sing achieved prior to that year. 

 In 1867 Chan Heung was 61 years old and by trying to place Jeung Hung Sing as his student within this time frame only, their objective becomes extremely clear.  They wanted to paint a picture of a much younger Jeung Hung Sing learning from a much older version of Chan Heung. However, that just wasn’t the case.  The twelve year old Jeung Hung Sing was training under a 30 year old Chan Heung. This means there was only an 18 year difference between them and not something like 40- 50 years as they wanted everyone to believe.

At the age of twelve years old Jeung Hung Sing would have viewed Chan Heung as a grown up but certainly not as an elderly person.  He trained under Chan Heung for five years until he was seventeen years old. Within that time, it’s alleged that Chan Heung travelled around promoting his gung fu and he took Jeung Hung Sing along with him. This in fact makes sense because according to my lineages history Chan Heung was responsible for the young man during this time.  And five years is indeed sufficient enough time to gain a solid understanding of Choy Lee Fut’s foundational material.

Now, the only known documentation of Jeung Hung Sing in Chan Heung’s archives only mention that Jeung Hung Sing returned to Fut San in 1867 to re-open the Hung Sing Kwoon. The way it is written seems to infer that Chan Heung was the person who originally sent Jeung Hung Sing to the city of Fut San to assume control of a Choy Lee Fut school that recently closed due to the master going blind.  At the same time, ignoring the fact that historically Jeung Hung Sing is reported to have established his school in 1851. 

Additionally, in 1864 Chan Heung was 58 years old and Jeung Hung Sing was 40 years old when the both of them fled to hong kong after the Tai Ping Rebellion was over.  It was here that they reunited for the first time after 26 years.  By this time, Chan Heung was well aware of Jeung Hung Sing’s accomplishments and since they were both members of the Hung Mun branch that was founded by the Green Grass Monk  he treated him like a brother instead of a former student. 

According to the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon history, Jeung Hung Sing taught Chan Heung some of the Fut Gar Kuen he learned from the Green Grass Monk.  And, because he was influential in the further evolution of Chan Heung’s creation our lineage refers to Jeung Hung Sing as a co-founder of sorts because of his contributions.  However, this seemed to upset a few students under the Chan Heung banner.  They began falsely accusing the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon lineages of trying to rewrite the history as THEY knew it.  The only problem was, much of what they were trying to tell us about our own history didn’t fit or add up at all.

Another Issue regarding the ages of both Jeung Hung Sing and Chan Heung was we two separate birth dates for Chan Heung.  The King Mui lineages state he was born in 1806. The Fut San sources claim his real birth year was 1815. If this latter date is correct that makes Chan Heung only 9 years older than Jeung Hung Sing instead of an 18 year difference.  I’ve also heard it said that they(King Mui)  changed Chan Heung’s birth year to make him look much older than Jeung Hung Sing.

During my research I happened to come across a PDF file online that outlined Chan Heung’s life.  In the article it mentioned that Chan Heung was of a certain age when some kind of event took place.  When I counted backwards from the date given, by their own account Chan Heung was born in 1815.  I mentioned this on a kung fu forum and then next thing I knew the original author omitted that section immediately afterwards.  The only explanation he gave was he made a mistake.

 In conclusion, truth always prevails in the end.  The Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon lineages have never budged in what has been taught to us in regards to our history.  Nor  have we ever tried to rewrite anything. The only thing we are doing is telling our side of the story as it was passed down to us via our elders.  We are a proud bunch of students, masters and grand masters striving to keep our legacy intact and unadulterated.

Long Live Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut aka Hung Sing Kuen!!!!!

WHO SENT JEUNG HUNG SING TO FUT SAN?

 by Sifu McCarthy 2/01/2014

     The year 1867 was the only time Jeung Hung Sing was mentioned in Chan Heung’s records.  And, the only thing stated was that he returned to Fut San to re-open his Hung Sing Kwoon.  It’s at this point that Chan Heung related branches assume-for some unknown reason-that this was the time Chan Heung sent him to Fut San.  Another big mistake is they also say Chan Heung sent him to Fut San to take over as the successor of Chan Din Foon’s school because he went blind.  However much of this is untrue when viewed from the perspective of Jeung Hung Sing’s Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon.

     Again, Chan Heung’s records only say Jeung Hung Sing returned to Fut San to re-open his Hung Sing Kwoon in 1867.  Still, not much thought was put into that statement because Jeung Hung Sing  clearly returned to “RE-OPEN” his school that he previously established in 1851, but closed it down due to the Tai Ping Rebellion.   It wasn’t possible for Jeung Hung Sing to take over Chan Din Foon’s school in 1867 because he didn’t go blind until 1875.   As well, Jeung Hung Sing was already in Fut San from 1867 to 1875 so Chan Heung couldn’t have sent him there since he was already there in the first place.

     The truth of the matter is, in 1849 the Green Grass Monk was the one to send Jeung Hung Sing to the city of Fut San.  He basically had three instructions.  1) Go to Fut San and make contact with the triad leaders, 2) open a school using the “Hung Sing” name, 3) prepare the revolutionary fighters for war.   That was his purpose in the city of Fut San and not the false story of Chan Heung sending him there to open and represent the “Great Sage” school.  If the opposite were true, there would have been absolutely no reason for Jeung Hung Sing to take down the Great Sage name and replace it with his Glorious Victory school’s name.   

     Why did Jeung Hung Sing need to return to Fut San and re-open his school for in the first place, right? Well, at the end of the Tai Ping Rebellion in 1864, the soldiers of Qing Empire were hunting for rebels.  Although they left at separate times, in between the years 1864 to 1867 they fled to Hong Kong to wait until things cooled down enough for them to return to King  Mui and Fut San.  The three years they spent in Hong Kong catching up on things was long enough for Jeung Hung Sing to re-enter the Choy Lee Fut picture.  Except, this time he came back as a co-founder of sorts because of his contributions to the further advancement of the Choy Lee Fut system.

 Perhaps in the time they spent together in Hong Kong, maybe Chan Heung and Jeung Hung Sing discussed choosing a new name of his school.  Because if Jeung Hung Sing was going to re-open it he was going to need a new name so not to draw attention to himself.    Then in 1867 they returned to their respective schools to pick up where they left off.  Except now, Choy Lee Fut has sprouted a new and separate branch called Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut, founded by Jeung Hung Sing.  Hopefully, this will put who sent Jeung Hung Sing to Fut San to rest as we’ve always claimed from the beginning, it was the Green Grass Monk who sent Jeung Hung Sing to the city of Fut San. 

Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut IS a Hung “(洪)” Family fighting method

by Sifu Frank McCarthy 02-18-14

     Hung Gar (洪家) gung fu is one of the more famous styles of Chinese Martial Arts to come from Southern China.  “Hung” (洪) means Vast, Flood, and is a surname, while Gar (家) means family.  This style was founded by Hung Hei Gung and further popularized by people like Wong Fei Hung. The martial arts its members practiced came to be called “Hung Gar” and “Hung Kuen” deep low stances, powerful hand techniques, and their trademarked Hung Gar bridge hand.  They also have a strong connection with the Chinese secret society known as the Hung Mun 洪門 (Hung Gate).  In fact, the majority of southern styles of gung fu were deeply intertwined with the secret society.

The Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon (佛山洪勝/鴻勝舘) as founded by Jeung Hung Sing and his Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut (鴻勝蔡李佛) system is one of those styles categorized within the realm of “Hung Gar Kuen” or Hung Family Fist.  Let me explain, I’m not saying we are part of the Hung Gar Kung Fu system, you won’t see us doing their identifiable Kiu Sow.  However, what I am saying is that the fighting method of Hung Sing Choy Lee fut created by Jeung Hung Sing is indeed an art with deep roots to the Hung Mun aka Hung Family.  Contrary to popular belief, Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut wasn’t established for Chan Heung in order to spread and promote the “Choy Lee Fut” style.  It was exclusively created and developed to become a fighting art of the Hung Mun aka Hung Society and utilized in warfare right away.  

     Jeung Yim never completed Chan Heung’s Choy Lee Fut system and therefore could not have been representing Choy Lee Fut between the years of 1841-1867 for a few reasons.  In 1841 Chan Heung was forced to ask Jeung Hung Sing to leave the Chan village in King Mui and instructed him to go to the Baat Pai Mountain which is found in the LouDing Province near the border of Guangxi.  Jeung Yim was to locate a monk who went by the name of Ching Cho (Green Grass) to see if he would be able to complete his gung fu training.   After he found the monk his training took 8 years to finish learning the Shaolin Fut Gar system.  Then the Green Grass monk gives him a new name and instructions that would change Jeung Yim’s life forever. 

     In the time that Jeung Yim was away learning a new style under Monk Ching Cho, Chan Heung continued to develop his Choy Lee Fut system.  It’s entirely safe to state that Jeung Yim didn’t get a chance to update his Choy Lee Fut training under Chan Heung during those years because of his absence.  In fact, there’s no mention of Chan Heung in Jeung Hung Sing’s life between 1841-1867 and two and half plus decades is a long time to not be in Choy Lee Fut’s picture.  Imagine how far Choy Lee Fut advanced by that time and Jeung Yim wasn’t there to pick any of that up.  Still, he had whatever he learned from Chan Heung for those first 5 years. 

 Another thing contrary to popular belief was Jeung Ah Yim wasn’t sent to Fut San to establish a Choy Lee Fut school for Chan Heung.  As a matter of fact, it was Monk Ching Cho who sent him there for a purpose.  In those days the Chinese secret society preferred to communicate their messages in the forms of Homonyms, metaphors and ambiguous poetry or slogans.  First he changed Jeung Yim’s name to Hung Sing (洪勝 – Hung Victory) which was an abridged version of the Hung Mun’s “Mission Statement” about overthrowing the Qing Empire.  The secret behind the name is that it means “the Hung Mun will be Victorious in overthrowing the Qing Dynasty”. 

 The next thing that Monk Ching Cho did was instruct the newly named Jeung Hung Sing to travel to Fut San in order to make contact with the triad leaders there. Then he was to set up a school to train the freedom fighters for the up and coming  Tai Ping Rebellion.  At the time the Sam Hop Wui had its headquarters in the city of Fut San.  Its believed that Jeung Hung Sing was also a member of this section of the Hung Mun.  Interestingly enough, the Sam Hop Wui was founded by the Green Grass Monk.   

 Jeung Hung Sing and his direct disciples fought in every major uprising in southern China between 1851 and the time of his death in 1893.   In all of Fut San Jeung Yim’s  “Hung Sing Kwoon” virtually encompassed the entire city.  Eventually it grew into the “Hung Sing Wui” or Hung Sing Society.  Although Jeung Hung Sing passed away, the connection to the Hung Society continued on through his students and grand students. Following in the same manner as their founder and Grand Master thousands of Hung Sing students rose up in revolution after revolution against homegrown and foreign aggression.    

 In the eyes of those who were afraid to lose their position of power, Hung Sing students were rebels who associated themselves with “gangsters” and outlaws.  In the eyes of the people, and later in the eyes of their government, Hung Sing students were heroes. Additionally, students of Chan Heung’s legacy were also hero’s because of their own part in the revolution.  In fact, a couple of Chan Heung’s grand students Cheng Si Leung, Chan Siu Bak were partners with Dr Sun Yat Sen in his mission to overthrow the Manchurians.  Students like Yuen Hai and Chan Ngau Sing in addition to grand Students of Jeung Hung Sing like Chin Wai Fong, LiangGuihua, Li Guanghai, and Wu Qin played very crucial roles in events like the Xinhai Revolution of 1911 and the Japanese invasion. 

 While Wu Qin became one of Dr. Sun Yat Sen’s bodyguards for swimming out and planted a bomb on and sunk a Japanese war Ship, others were hired to teach combat at the Wampo Military Academy.  Then over in the United States, the connection to the Hung Mun continued through Professor’s Lau Bun and Jew Leong, Grand Master Dino Salvatera and Sifu Frank McCarthy.  While there is no more revolutions taking place, the American Hung Sing Kwoon’s involvement was always out of loyalty and tradition.  As a student of Hung Sing and a member of the Hung Society I am very proud to be a part of this legacy that has been running through the veins of the Hung Sing Kwoon for more than 163 years now.  

 As I sit back and reflect on the extensive relationship between Choy Lee Fut, Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut and the Hung Mun i see more clearly now that while Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut has its connection to Chan Heung’s Choy Lee Fut, our lineage wasn’t developed to benefit Chan Heung.   It was undoubtedly created, designed, and utilized for the Hung Mun.  It would be incorrect to say Chan Heung gave birth to Jeung Hung Sing’s lineage.  If indeed this was the case, you would find more than a few forms created and passed down by Chan Heung,but, the fact of the matter is that Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon doesn’t possess one single form passed down within the King Mui, Jiangmen, Kong Chow, or any schools closely related to Chan Heung.  Therefore, when comparing Choy Lee Fut and Hung Mun, all fingers point to us being a school of the Hung family. 

Hung for life.